The mandatory tip: your views, please. (Photo: sxc.hu)
Last year, my sister and I decided not to endure the bad service at Harvey Nichol’s cafe, Dundrum, and walked out before ordering.
But we were back again recently, partly because Cafe Mimo is closed for renovations, partly because we liked the look of its menu, and partly because we wanted to give it another go.
Barbara’s baby Jamie was with us, and the manager was very accommodating, ensuring we got a decent seat with space for the buggy, and providing hot water to heat Jamie’s bottle.
I wasn’t madly impressed with the food, some of which was served cold, but the manager replaced it without quibble and was apologetic. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t be wildly keen to give Harvey Nichol’s Cafe a fourth try.
The bill arrived with a ten per cent service charge. I don’t object to paying a tip as such – but in a cafe? At lunchtime? Shouldn’t the amount be up to the customer?
That said, to leave anything less than ten per cent is miserable, and there should be a incredibly hot damn good reason to leave no tip at all. I do occasionally see an added service charge, but it’s usually for larger parties, or in higher end restaurants.
But forget about Harvey Nichols: I sometimes feel that the obligatory service charge is a disincentive to provide a more generous tip (“ah sure, the tip is covered…”). And I wonder if it always goes to the staff.
On the plus side, maybe it balances out for the waiting staff by ensuring that stingy diners don’t leave them short. Oh, I don’t know… Clearly, my feelings on this issue are mixed, so it’s over to you.
What do you think? Should service charges be added as standard? I do like a good old fashioned argument, so please tear each other limb from limb below. Comments from waiting staff are particularly welcome.
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 11:33 am
I don’t think obligatory service charges for tables under six in any restaurant – but especially a lunchtime café – is reasonable. At dinner I understand the extra service burden a large party causes, and as long as it’s stated clearly on the menu before you order it’s ok. As the customer you have to regard it as part of the price you agree to pay for your service.
Generally I’d be against “discretionary” service charges. In one restaurant with that arrangement we wanted to set our own tip and had to have the bill sent back for the service charge to be removed. It was an uncomfortable end to a nice meal which was unnecessary.
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 11:34 am
Sorry, why is a tip obligatory? As a city guy in his mid 20s who dines out a lot, this is a new rule to me. In the USA, yes I tip 20% automatically because it’s expected of everyone & the service staff only get pennies an hour, no healthcare, etc. but in Ireland? Really?
How is 10% “miserable”? Tips are for very good (10%) and exceptional (20%) service, not a mandatory invisible tax. Go away out of that!
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 11:36 am
A former waitress myself, I feel absolutely no obligation to tip in Ireland. Here, tipping is about rewarding great service – not topping up pitifully low wages a la the US.
Half-arsed slapping plates down, always having to interrupt personal conversations to get service – you don’t deserve a tip in my book.
Service charges for large groups (8 or more, maybe?) seem reasonable to me because serving groups of that size can be difficult – but for 2 people? Fuhgeddaboutit!
All that said, I do tip when we get great service – which has happened a lot recently. It’s great to find places that charge reasonable prices, serve extraordinarily good food, and have the service to match – I do what I can to keep them in business!
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 11:45 am
My husband and I were recently killing time in Dundrum SC before going out for dinner later that evening. The Harvey Nichol’s cafe was advertising a cake/pastry with tea/coffee deal for €5 so we popped in. A service charge was automatically added to the bill. We paid up but we won’t be back. We tip generously when out for a meal but this is sharp practice when all that has happened is that someone brought 2 teas and 2 slices of cake to our table. The surroundings aren’t the best either – a bit grubby with scruffed furniture. We won’t be back. By the way, has anyone else noticed the self-service places that have a tips jar at the till? Only in Ireland!!`We went to Ananda’s for dinner that evening – highly recommended.
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 12:03 pm
Oser, your description of the surroundings are spot on. Will, it’s LESS THAN ten per cent that’s miserable. I’d always leave some sort of tip unless I’ve had a bad service experience.
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Why would you leave a tip unless the service is exceptional? You can’t tip everyone on minimum wage. You don’t tip the guy that serves you in Centra? He’s on his feet all day and gets feck all money. So I don’t get the tipping waiters.
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Myself on the other half generally tip. We’ve both done our time in the service industry and reckon the amount of shit people have to put up with ‘from customers is ridiculous for the low wages they’re on. Waiting tables gets you a lot more shit than working on the till in a supermarket (which still gets a lot of shit, dont get me wrong) as customers tend to be self-inflated entitled to everything (oh isnt the customer ALWAYS right and should be allowed to snap their fingers at the waitress, jump little girl, jump). When the service is bad, we don’t tip, but when it’s alright they’ll get 10%ish and 20% if really good. I’ve found more issue with other diners attitudes than staff attitudes when I’m eating out.
Obligatory charging on parties under 6 I dont understand (and when I have been out w/ parties over six, we tend to throw down a tip on top of the service charge if service is good). Good service will be (should be) rewarded anyway w/o needing obligatory tipping. I can understand it on tables over a certain size as some people just dont tip a reasonable amount anyway (I think it’s terribly embarrassing to go out with bad tippers, you try to put down a few bob that you’d consider a good tip and they figure you’ve made up the whole tip and that that’s loads).
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 1:13 pm
I have similarly mixed feelings about service charge.
A couple of things to note, though, which make Ireland differ from the US and other countries where tipping is expected.
– Tipping is viewed as compulsory in the US, but not here. How is compulsory tipping (at a generally accepted rate) any different from the restaurant telling you what the suggested amount is?
– No service charge in Ireland is compulsory. Whether they print it on the bill or not, you don’t *have* to pay it. You don’t even have to send the bill back, generally; you can simply mention that you’re not paying the service charge. I’ve worked in plenty of places where people have done this. Many have even done this and then gone on to give a tip directly to the serving staff.
– Service charge often does not go to the staff directly. Even when it does go to staff (often after a chunk has been taken out to tip the kitchen staff, bar staff, managers), it can legally be used as part of the basic wage for staff. I have worked in places where the wage paid by the employer was less than half of the legal wage. Staff pay was brought up to the legal minimum by adding in service charge. And this was less than 10 years ago, when everyone was apparently rolling in it, we had people being paid less than €4, completely legally! However, due to our tipping culture here, these staff don’t have the benefit of the US notion of compulsory tipping.
(A little bugbear of mine, you may have noticed.)
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Why would you expect a tip in Ireland? I think this is a by product of the Celtic tiger when people had more money than sense. I would on occasion tip in Ireland if the service is very good otherwise why would I? Waiting staff get paid more than enough and are just doing there job. I dont get a tip for doing my job.
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 2:59 pm
I am very confused by this myself.
In France where I come from, things are simple: you tip only when people went beyond what would be reasonably expected of them as part of their jobs. In the States the system seems pretty clear also.
But here? Half the people say no/low tipping is “ridiculous”, while the other half look at you like you have 2 heads when you suggest leaving some tip (“the celtic tiger is over etc..”).
I do tip around 10%, but as somebody above said, I really do not know why I do it to waiters and not everybody else. It doesn’t make sense to me to tip to compensate for the “the amount of shit waiters have to put up with from [other] customers”.
I wonder actually whether a no-tipping culture doesn’t make it easier for staff to put clear limits on the way they can be treated both by the management and customers.
Anyway, great topic!
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 3:02 pm
I only tip if the service has been excellent, that is it. I’m also on minimum wage, so can barely justify going out in the first place!
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 3:43 pm
@ Pat, staff aren’t necesarily ‘paid more than enough’. Friends of mine are still in a situation where their basic wage per hour is €3.81! Hardly a king’s ransom…
Wednesday 25 April, 2012 at 8:38 pm
I tip when the service is good. If its not, I don’t, and I don’t feel bad about it, as I think its wrong to reward bad service. in general, waiting staff are paid a full wage so its not like the US. I have worked in the service industry myself so I know what its like. That said when the service is good I always tip at least 10% and often more.
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 8:39 am
Grainne, that is illegal. Get them to complain about it.
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 11:10 am
Claire, unfortunately, it’s not illegal. From the http://www.unionconnect.ie website
“What is included in gross pay? –
For the purpose of calculating the national minimum wage, gross pay includes basic salary, shift premium, bonus or service charge.”
And from the ESRI report on the minimum wage
“The average hourly rate of pay is calculated by dividing the employee’s gross reckonable pay in the reference period by their working hours in that period, including any overtime. Reckonable pay includes basic pay, shift premia, piece and incentive rates, commissions and bonuses which are productivity related, a specified value where board and/or lodgings are provided by the employer, and the amount of any service charge distributed to employees through the payroll.”
Both of these are wordy ways of saying that service charge can be included in the basic rate of pay.
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 11:30 am
I tip 10% if service is adequate and up to 15% if it is good to excellent. I dont tip if service is bad. I also find it terrible when out with people niggling over this at the end of a meal. As can be seen from the above comments there are genuine discrepancies over how people tip and what their views are. That is why I like a service charge for larger groups especially in a work context. I have been known to slip fivers under teacups surreptitiously when out with non-tippers 🙂
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 11:48 am
Some interesting comments here: I always assumed tipping ten per cent in Ireland was a given for adequate service, as per LM’s comment. Grainne, I now wonder about whether this compulsory service charge is being used as a wage top-up in some places with poor to adequate service – such as Harvey Nichol’s. It would explain quite a lot. I think I’m going to ask about it in future when there’s a party of five or less being charged for service on the bill.
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Grainne, I had no idea!
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 12:20 pm
So what is the consequence of Grainne’s comment? that if a tip or service charge is paid, the tip can be counted towards the salary, hence reducing the part the employer has to pay??
Would that not be an incentive for not tipping/paying the service charge, since it seems that whether you do it or not the staff is paid the same?
Or did I miss something?
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 12:29 pm
It seems that service charge can be put towards wages, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen tips treated in this way. (Though I have seen a percentage taken from credit card tips to cover credit card charges.)
I’m not sure what the consequence is, though. Do people refuse to pay service charge, and tip directly to the staff? Do they leave a tip above service charge? Do they refuse to leave anything?
I’m not sure what the right answer is, or even if there is one. I am certain, though, that it’s not as clear cut as a lot of people seem to think.
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 1:23 pm
I don’t understand how people are being paid €3.81/hr because of the inclusion of service charge as taxable basic wage.
It’s up to the employer to pay wages, not the customers. There are many worse jobs than waiting on tables and we don’t tip them. It’s only habit. Tips should be for great service.
Thursday 26 April, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Well, it seems that people are paid the minimum wage independently of whether we pay the service charge and/or tip them or not.
So then we are back onto another question: since waiters are paid the minimum wage, why would we pay them on top?
yes, surely their job is hard, but as Arbie says, they are not the only ones in this case.
I had just accepted this as a cultural difference when moving here, but now I am wondering what it is based on and whether I want to continue doing it!
Friday 27 April, 2012 at 10:54 am
In France, 15% of your bill goes towards staff wages. It’s added to all meals, small or large tables, etc… You generally leave the change if you want to, but it’s not mandatory or you won’t even feel bad if you don’t. Say, you have a coffee that cost 1.80€, most people would leave the 20 cents on the table. However, if you go for dinner and it costs 39€, you will also leave the remaining euro, so it is much less than 10%
I would rather see the service charge added to all meals here, but fully paid to staff as part of their wages, with maybe a reevaluation of the rates they get paid at.
As for the “why tip when others are paid as low and don’t get tips”, it’s very true. We tend to tip people who provide a service – the taxi driver, the hairdresser, the delivery guy…. – but not the ones with equally shi**y jobs who are paid the minimum wage and have very little perks to their jobs. At least, some of the waiters get to eat or take way some food.
Monday 7 May, 2012 at 7:08 pm
For Martin – I rad that you ask for the obligatory service charge to be removed, which I was not aware that I could do but I would be interestong in knowing how much of a tip you did leave, was it more or less than 10%.
Tuesday 8 May, 2012 at 5:23 pm
I don’t understand service charge for 6 or more. I would be delighted to see more people come into my business.
Monday 6 August, 2012 at 12:05 am
hi im working as a waitress myself and im a foreigner why do you all assume that the service charge on the bill goes to the server.. where i work it goes to the owner and it happen so many times when people gets annoyed seeing that or just assuming that goes to the server… but i was just wondering is that legal to include service charge in the bil then it goes to the owner instead…
thanks